On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
Audible Logo Your audiobook is waiting!
Enjoy a free trial on us
$0.00
  • Click above for unlimited listening to select audiobooks, Audible Originals, and podcasts.
  • One credit a month to pick any title from our entire premium selection — yours to keep (you'll use your first credit now).
  • You will get an email reminder before your trial ends.
  • $14.95 a month after 30 days. Cancel online anytime.
Learn more about membership
Sold and delivered by Audible, an Amazon company
List Price: $20.74
By completing your purchase, you agree to Audible’s Conditions Of Use and Amazon's Privacy Notice.
Sold and delivered by Audible, an Amazon company

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society Audible Audiobook – Unabridged

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (Author, Narrator), Hachette Audio (Publisher)
4.5 4.5 out of 5 stars 243 ratings
See all formats and editions

The revised and updated edition of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's modern classic about the psychology of combat, hailed by the Washington Post as "an illuminating account of how soldiers learn to kill and how they live with the experiences of having killed". In World War II, only 15 to 20 percent of combat infantry were willing to fire their rifles. In Korea, about 50 percent. In Vietnam, the figure rose to more than 90 percent.

The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have developed sophisticated ways sophisticated ways of overcoming that instinctive aversion. The psychological cost for soldiers, as evidenced by the increase in post-traumatic stress, is devastating. This landmark study brilliantly illuminates the techniques the military uses to help soldiers kill and raises vital questions about the implications of escalating violence in our society.

Previous page
  1. Listening Length
    10 hours and 23 minutes
  2. Author
    Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
  3. Narrator
    Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
  4. Audible release date
    June 22, 2009
  5. Language
    English
  6. Publisher
    Hachette Audio
  7. ASIN
    B002EAS5KQ
  8. Version
    Unabridged
  9. Program Type
    Audiobook
  10. See all details
Next page

Product details

Listening Length 10 hours and 23 minutes
Author Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
Narrator Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
Audible.com Release Date June 22, 2009
Publisher Hachette Audio
Program Type Audiobook
Version Unabridged
Language English
ASIN B002EAS5KQ
Best Sellers Rank #9,625 in Audible Books & Originals (See Top 100 in Audible Books & Originals)
#5 in Military Science
#16 in Violence in Society (Books)
#16 in Violence in Society (Audible Books & Originals)

Customer reviews

4.5 out of 5 stars
4.5 out of 5
243 global ratings

Top reviews from the United States

TripSeven
5.0 out of 5 stars Well worth the read! Wish I would have read it years ago.
Reviewed in the United States on September 21, 2013
Verified Purchase
Col. Grossman answers lots of questions in this volume.

The questions are arising now. The answers are in our history. We must understand where we've been, to understand where we are going.
Col. Grossman provides a rich history and excellent perspective on where we are going as a culture. His insight is unsurpassed. I Wish I would have read this years ago.
Col. Grossman also provides application to the knowledge supplied in the book.

If you are, or desire to be Law Enforcement, or if you are merely a concerned citizen or parent, this book will help prepare you for the challenges of the future. Read it, and read it again.

Read it in conjunction with "On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and... "

Overall the book is a fast, easy read. History can be tedious, Col Grossmans portrayal is engaging. The points he makes are reinforced with his own personal accounts, and testimonies from soldiers and warriors of days gone by.
11 people found this helpful
Helpful
 Report
Consumerista
5.0 out of 5 stars Immensely insightful and well written-- a true contribution to the body of knowledge concerning killing and the human psyche.
Reviewed in the United States on February 12, 2014
Verified Purchase
I bought this book after a friend recommended it to me and after hearing LtCol Grossman speak at a seminar on resiliency at my air force base.

The book is highly researched and extremely well written. In his book, the author investigates the effects that killing and war have on the human psyche. Pulling from the current body of knowledge that exists in the medical field and other written works, the author highlights key discoveries on the psychological cost of killing and war, and develops several original ideas which are insightful and well supported. The true cost of war is not found in the dollars spent on financing the war effort, but on the physical and psychological trauma that results from it.

I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to understand more about killing and war and about the wanton acts of homocide that plague our society. I would highly recommend this book to anyone in the military, as I myself am in the military and find the book edifying. Finally, I would recommend this book to anyone who works in politics or plans to enter political service.
2 people found this helpful
Helpful
 Report
William R. Forstchen
4.0 out of 5 stars Exception work but disagree with the fundemental thesis
Reviewed in the United States on November 18, 2012
Verified Purchase
I've debated for several days after reading "On Killing" whether to post a review or not. I have tremendous respect for the author and his professional credentials but must disagree with his thesis and especially his use of two sources in particular. The author is a devotee of S.L.A. Marshall as were many until two works in the late 1980s cast serious doubts on Marshall's methodology and even his personal character. This blew open while I was a graduate student, specializing in military history and therefore became a topic of intense debate within my circle of fellow students and professors, especially my mentor, who was a British Commando in WWII. The second source I would debate is some of the information the author took from Paddy Griffith's works on the American Civil War.

The underlying thesis of "On Killing" is that mankind is instinctively hard wired Not To Kill. How I wish that was true, and yet our bloody record across recorded history and plenty of evidence even prior to recorded history shows the exact opposite. We are, by instinct "killer angels." Read "War Before Civilization" as but one counter argument. But directly to my concern about the author's sources. "SLAM" Marshall's reputation was built on alleged interviews, hundreds of them, immediately after combat during WWII in which he asserts that at least 75% of combat infantry never fired their weapons, thereby proving that soldiers, at least American soldiers abhor killing and try to avoid doing so even at the risk of their lives.

Marshall's work was called into serious doubt in the late 1980s by one history who simply ran a "time analysis" on how many soldiers Marshall claimed to have interviewed and came up with an impossible number of hours to have achieved the number of interviews he claimed, in other words falsified data which was turned about to fit his thesis. David Hackworth, who served with Marshall was scathing in his comments about serving directly with the man. When it comes to WWII I feel the author of "On Killing" neglected a near infinite number of variables that affect men in combat. . .green vs. veterans, nature of combat, open field vs. the terror of close up urban where indeed one or two of a squad are usually heavily engaged with the rest provide cover, hauling ammunition for machine guns and back up, etc. Even more significant, as Keegan repeatedly points out in his exceptional works, the level of brutality rapidly escalates due to such issues as defense, especially if defending one's own country from invasion verse offense, difference in ethnicity and especially difference in race and religion which truly trigger the darker side of our nature. But one example, German troops transferred from the Russian front to France were actually briefed that this was now a different enemy and rules of war again apply. As to "our guys" in that war, I have yet to interview a vet of the Pacific War who said there was any civility or urge not to kill, the hatred ran that deep, fueled as well by racial difference. In the European theater any vet I interviewed would almost smile when discussing combat against Italian troops, but when confronting the Waffen SS it was to the death and usually no prisoners and fought by all with hatred.

I know this is a long review but I must comment on a second topic the author covers at length and that is our Civil War and what I felt was his over reliance on the works of "Paddy" Griffith, yet another author I have respect for even when I disagree. The author of "On Killing" dwells repeatedly on the fact that on average between 200-250 rounds were fired for each casualty inflicted and thus again leaps to the conclusion that this demonstrates his thesis that soldiers on both sides, either deliberately aimed high, or even went so far as to mimic loading their guns and not firing at all.

I must counter on several points. The author asserts that the typical range of Civil War combat was 30 yards. Definitely not true! (a belief shored up by such films as Patriot or even the opening scene in Glory). Typical range, especially as the war dragged out and killing effectiveness increased, was typically two hundred yards or more. Close in volley fights, at fifty yards or less, such as Groveton, August 1862 were indeed rare, except when opposing sides tangled into each other in woods such as at the Wilderness.

I've personally run some live fire tests with others and not just reenactments with everyone running about shooting blanks. The biggest factor affecting aimed fire. . .smoke, and smoke and more smoke, carpets of it that within minutes all but blinded both sides. At two hundred and fifty yards a mis-aim of even a few millimeters too high translates into a minie ball into the tree tops four hundred yards away. Third, try putting a percussion cap on the nipple of a rifled musket when all is confusion and terror, and finally something we of course could not simulate, the fear because "they are shooting back." Add in exhaustion, bad food, close friends torn apart by your side, these were the deciders of rifle fire effectiveness, not a 75% rate of those who refused to kill no matter what the situation. The author cites the number or rifles found at Gettysburg with two or more bullets rammed into them and to my amazement asserts that to actually then put on a percussion cap and fire it for real would clean out the half dozen or more minie balls and powder charges jammed in. I would suggest handing that assignment over to Myth Busters and standing well clear. I ascribe this to terrified kids who in many cases first jammed a bullet down the barrel rather than the powder and in the confusion did not even know they were no longer shooting. I actually have done that a few times with loading, thinking I had fired but the percussion cap had fallen off then loaded again, (firing blanks only) and the kickback was certainly a shocker and realization that even in a simulation I could get rattled!

Definitely time for a conclusion I think. I give this book four stars because it is obviously well researched even though I think the author has "chased his thesis up the wrong tree," I nevertheless welcome the debate it creates. I do wish I could hold a more optimistic view of humanity when it comes to the subject of our brutality towards each other. A point I do wish had been covered in more detail is my own belief that high technology weapons and media now make killing even easier. We no longer look directly into the eyes of the man we kill, hear his screams and see that "inner light" go dark. Our alleged entertainment usually involves brutal deaths, the more the better in the latest James Bond movie for example, Youtube and other sources are flooded with "cool" night vision footage of enemies being blown apart and though I do detest the Taliban and their creed as an enemy we must confront, it is a bit disturbing when watching a human being shredded by 30mm cannon fire and to read the comments that it is "cool." It has become the desensitizing conditioning of first person "shoot `em ups" of Xbox translated into realities.

Even if you disagree with the author's thesis that we as a species recoil from killing, the book will nevertheless provoke reflective thought and I am seriously considering using it as text book in my classes that deal with warfare.
341 people found this helpful
Helpful
 Report
John Salvatore
5.0 out of 5 stars On Killing is a must read for those who choose to own guns and those who do not alike.
Reviewed in the United States on May 21, 2013
Verified Purchase
"On Killing" provides valuable insight into the conditioning and thought processes necessary to weather survival situations that require killing to save ones life. From Grossman's experience with war and killing he is able to speak from an expert point of view about how costly it can be to hesitate or be unprepared to end another persons life to save your own if it becomes necessary to do so. Although many of us will be fortunate enough to never put the lessons Col. Grossman describes into practical use the act of preparing ones-self to do could make the difference between life and death. Further, the book aims to provide insight into the mental aftermath and guild that inherently accompany killing and provides both proactive and retroactive tips for coping. All in all, this book is an excellent read for those who can handle it.
7 people found this helpful
Helpful
 Report
Auston Duke Hafen
5.0 out of 5 stars Absolutely Incredible
Reviewed in the United States on August 13, 2019
Verified Purchase
I am only on CD 3 and I am hooked; when I try to explain to people what this book is about, I get a look of "you psycho" but David Grossman explains the science behind it so well. It isn't just about "killing" but it's about what your mind goes through and how to cope with it. Great book.
2 people found this helpful
Helpful
 Report
Kindle Customer 14
3.0 out of 5 stars Interesting data, perhaps a tad bit dated
Reviewed in the United States on December 25, 2019
Verified Purchase
Liked the data and statistics and the authors overall analysis. Very thoughtful of him to explain what veterans of Viet Nam went through. Not a huge fan of his syntax. Worth the read. Would recommend.
Helpful
 Report
Donald P. Jane
5.0 out of 5 stars The High Price of Having to Kill
Reviewed in the United States on November 1, 2017
Verified Purchase
This is an incredible work on the psychology of the common man who is not predisposed to taking a person's life having to learn and then execute the killing of their fellow man. The author goes into great depth and detail to successfully deliver a product that is easy, albeit not a comfortable, comprehension of the subject. This book is not for the faint of heart and yet is an extremely enlightening and compelling read.
Helpful
 Report

Top reviews from other countries

Kindle Customer
2.0 out of 5 stars Tracks skip or don't work
Reviewed in Australia on October 19, 2021
Verified Purchase
The book itself is fantastic, but numerous tracks don't work or skip. Super sad!
Report
James Strachan
5.0 out of 5 stars On Killing is about facing up and making changes
Reviewed in Canada on February 9, 2013
Verified Purchase
Very well written in an engaging style. He gathers resources in a compelling way, and presents his startling conclusions in a way that gives them extra power.Grossman's analytical powers are excellent. This book is extremely helpful in understanding our current social situation vis a vis weaponry in society. He also poits to cultural causes for the dilemma.
Report
Daniel Edwards
5.0 out of 5 stars Good read
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on January 10, 2014
Verified Purchase
A very interesting insight into the effects upon us soldiers that do still operate on the ground.
I will undoubtedly reflect after or even during tasks to consider what effects situations maybe having upon ourselves.
I certainly will continue to refuse to buy my children certain computer games!
One person found this helpful
 Report
Dermie X
4.0 out of 5 stars Go Dave!
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on February 25, 2014
Verified Purchase
This is a bit dated now and he's got an axe to grind but it's nearly... nearly essential reading for war geeks. And 20 times better than his 'On Combat'.
One person found this helpful
 Report
Spartan
5.0 out of 5 stars brilliant!
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on December 4, 2013
Verified Purchase
Really good book, would recommend for military thinkers. I will be reading it again and hope to find others by the same author!
One person found this helpful
 Report